Senedd Cymru | Welsh Parliament
Bil Aelod Arfaethedig – Mark Isherwood AS | Proposed Member Bill - Mark Isherwood MS
Datblygu'r Bil Iaith Arwyddion Prydain (BSL) (Cymru) | Development of the British Sign Language (BSL) (Wales) Bill
Ymateb gan: Sefydliad Cenedlaethol Brenhinol Pobl Fyddar (RNID) | Evidence from: Royal National Institute for Deaf People (RNID)
The Royal National Institute for Deaf People (RNID) is the UK-wide charity representing the 12 million people who are deaf, BSL users, have hearing loss or tinnitus – including more than 900,000 people in Wales. Alongside the communities we represent, we campaign to make society more inclusive for everyone.
1. There is not a consensus on the number of BSL users in Wales. The 2021 Census Data for England and Wales reports 22,000 who use British Sign Language as their main language, with an estimated 25,000 using sign language as their main language across the UK.[1] The British Deaf Association estimates that the total number of people in the UK who use British Sign Language (not necessarily as their main language) is 151,000, and of these, 87,000 are deaf.[2]
For Wales, some estimates suggest there are around 4,000 deaf people living in Wales.[3]
3 A separate Welsh Government report estimates the Welsh BSL population to be between 5,600 and 7,300.[4]
Improving equality and inclusion for deaf people and BSL users is a core aim of RNID, and our recent It Does Matter report looked into public attitudes towards deaf people and people with hearing loss. Our report found that 71% of BSL users surveyed believe that most people hold negative attitudes towards deaf people and people with hearing loss.[5] Of the general public who took our survey, 34% said they didn’t know how to communicate with a BSL user.[6] This demonstrates the significant work to be done to improve the equality, access and language rights of BSL users in Wales, and we want to see Welsh Government catch up with the Scotland and Westminster Government’s with our own BSL Act for Wales.
Below is our response to the Welsh Parliament’s Consultation on Mark Isherwood MS’s proposed British Sign Language (Wales) Bill.
The British Sign Language Act 2022 requires the UK Government to issue guidance about the promotion and facilitation of the use of British Sign Language (BSL). This however only applies in England and not to the Welsh Government or public bodies in Wales such as councils or the NHS. The British Sign Language (BSL) (Wales) Bill aims to place equivalent specific duties on the Welsh Government and public bodies in Wales.
RNID believe that legislation in the form of a British Sign Language (Wales) Act is necessary to achieve the desired change and equality for BSL users in Wales.
Currently, BSL users in Wales are at risk; their government has significantly weaker or minimal statutory responsibilities to the deaf community compared to other UK nations. Further protections exist through the British Sign Language (Scotland) Act 2015, the Westminster British Sign Language Act 2022 and a Sign Language Bill is currently being put forward in the Northen Ireland Assembly with Government support.
In line with Acts and proposals elsewhere in the UK, the BSL Wales Bill would give the deaf BSL using community the cultural and linguistic recognition they deserve by giving BSL a clear legal status and putting in place a statutory and permanent mechanism to allow the deaf community to engage in the development of the policies and public services they rely on.
While there are many ways to affect meaningful change without legislation, we believe that, without legislative footing, we will not achieve the scale of change and progress needed for BSL users in Wales. For example, the current commitment to a Welsh
Government BSL Stakeholder Group is not statutory, so the progress of this group or any recommendations it makes are subject to changing policy priorities, and at risk through changes of government; this is particularly pertinent with the 2026 Senedd elections on the horizon.
We’ve seen this occur elsewhere with issues that affect deaf people and people with hearing loss, where policy priorities without statutory footing slide down the political agenda, resulting in further inequality. For example, the 2013 All Wales Standards for Accessible Information and Communication have been poorly implemented and have limited positive impact on people with sensory loss, including BSL users in Wales.
Meaningful reporting and monitoring of implementation progress slowed and effectively halted in 2021, and our communities still report the same concerns and issues as before the Standards were introduced. While there has been some progress, the lack of legislative footing of these Standards and the accompanying resource to ensure effective implementation have resulted in very limited progress over the past decade; particularly implementing the deaf BSL using community.
Another example of BSL users’ access to their language being rolled back is the Welsh Government’s choice to no longer include simultaneous BSL translation at its key announcements and press conferences, particularly First Minister’s announcements. Despite being a leader in this alongside Scottish Government during the Covid-19 pandemic, in March 2024, this stopped, meaning that BSL users no longer had equal access to important information about their Government.
These examples highlight the importance of legislation to fully protect the rights of BSL users in Wales.
In addition to an Act, it is crucial for any mechanisms within the proposed legislation to be placed on statutory footing to ensure they are protected. Providing a legal basis for these elements of the Bill would provide the Deaf community with reassurance over their longevity and the Welsh Government’s commitment to promoting and facilitating BSL.
The proposed Bill put forward by Mark Isherwood MS would also establish an important legal requirement for Welsh Government to actively engage the deaf community in a process of co-production for the policy and services they rely on – meeting the principle of no decision about us, without us. This is in the spirit of the Welsh Government’s commitment to co-production, demonstrated through its Disability Rights Taskforce.
However, unlike the Disability Rights Taskforce, a BSL Advisory Group would focus on the linguistic and cultural rights of BSL users in Wales, alongside disability rights - extending this principle and structure of co-production to an area currently not covered for BSL users.
While there is existing legislation protects the rights of BSL users in Wales, there are significant gaps which we believe a BSL (Wales) Act would address. For example:
- The British Sign Language Act 2022 passed by the UK Parliament does not extend to areas that are devolved to Welsh Government, such as health, social care and education. These areas are often where BSL users face the most significant inequality and barriers in their daily lives.
- The Wellbeing of Future Generations Act 2015 aims to improve the well-being of current and future generations in Wales. While several of its goals – a more equal Wales, a healthier Wales, a Wales of cohesive communities, and a more prosperous Wales – in principle would support improving the equality and well- being of deaf people and BSL users, this legislation is broad and it’s difficult to assess the direct impact of it on deaf BSL users.
- The Equality Act 2010 offers some protections and requires reasonable adjustments be made to ensure people are not disadvantaged. However, what constitutes a ‘reasonable adjustment’ can be ambiguous, leading to inconsistent application.
- The Welsh Government has previously committed to incorporate the UN Convention on the Rights of Disabled People (UNCRD). There are several articles within this convention that emphasise the importance of sign language provision to ensure access for sign language users, including in official interactions, and even for wider training in deaf culture and communication methods. With clear gaps in existing legislation, and BSL users’ continuing to experience persistent inequality, we believe that legislation is necessary to protect the rights of BSL users in Wales.
We agree with the broad goals of the proposed bill, to:
1. Support the removal of barriers that currently exist for deaf people and their families across Wales in education, health, public services, support services and in the workplace.
2. Ensure that people who use BSL are not treated less favourably than those who speak English or Welsh.
3. Provide deaf communities with a voice in the design and delivery of services they use to ensure their needs are met.
These goals will be crucial to address the existing inequality and significant barriers faced by BSL users in Wales. The process of engagement with this consultation alone has demonstrated the significant disconnect between deaf BSL users and the Welsh Parliament, and perhaps also the level of disenfranchisement as a result of persistent barriers to access. This highlights the key role for the Bill to improve access to and promotion and provision of BSL in public life in Wales.
While we understand the proposal for establishing a BSL Commissioner, and support the remit of this Commissioner in principle, we don’t necessarily believe that a commissioner will be the best use of resource to ensure the Bill is effectively implemented. We expand on this further in response to question 10 & 11, but we believe resources could be used alternatively to achieve a bigger impact. Some suggestions include:
- Fully resourcing the BSL Stakeholder Group to carry out some of these core duties.
- Appointing BSL Act implementation leads within public bodies, such as local authorities or health boards.
- To fund a national Video Relay Service (VRS) that is available to ensure all public services are accessible to BSL users, similar to Contact Scotland.
We would also like to see the Bill include the following further priorities and goals:
1. Improve the collection and availability of data on the experiences of deaf BSL users in Wales to inform policymaking. There is currently limited information on even how many BSL users are in Wales, let alone whether BSL is their preferred or second language. Census data from 2021 has been helpful, but we know little beyond that, therefore we need to ensure these evidence gaps are addressed.
2. Identify infrastructure needed to support the provision of BSL set out in the BSL – for example, Teachers of the Deaf (ToD), BSL interpreters and translators, availability of BSL courses across Wales, etc. This will need to include:
a. A workforce mapping exercise to understand how many of these roles and services currently exist across Wales.
b. Identifying expected capacity needed from these services to meet the requirements set out in the BSL Wales Bill.
c. A plan to build the capacity needed in order to meet these requirements. This will be central to effective implementation, as we have previously seen this become an obstacle to Welsh Government’s previous commitments to BSL; for example, acting on the recommendations of the Welsh Government’s BSL audit has been indefinitely delayed due to lack of capacity and resource.
We agree that promotion and facilitation of BSL should be central to any Bill, alongside expansion of BSL capacity to ensure the resource needed to promote and facilitate the language is needed. This should also include tactile and hands-on forms used by deafblind people in Wales.
Further exploration is likely needed to establish this, as well as engagement with organisations like Signature, and individuals including interpreters, translators and ToD, who have experience of the use of the language in Wales and its variations. While regional dialects within BSL are common and there should be awareness and understanding of that, it’s important that consistency of how the language is promoted and facilitated is ensured. It’s also important that any resource provided to supporting regional dialects should be proportionate in relation to the overarching aims of the Bill.
At RNID, the default term we use is ‘BSL user’ to refer to members of our community who use BSL as either a first or second language. However, we don’t have objections to the use of ‘BSL signer’ and know that some organisations and individuals use that term.
As above, at RNID, we tend to use ‘BSL users’ to refer to individuals and groups who use BSL, however, we don’t have objections to the term ‘deaf BSL signers’ as long as people are individually happy to be referred to in that way. We tend to use lower case ‘deaf’ rather than ‘Deaf’ as while ‘Deaf’ is understood within the community, its meaning or nuance is not necessarily understood beyond that.
While certain members of the deaf BSL community do currently have a voice in the design and delivery of public services, we know that this is unequal, and deaf BSL users face further barriers to engaging with the public policy and political process. For example:
• Consultations on Welsh Government or Senedd policy proposals are inconsistently made available in BSL, meaning that BSL users do not have equal access to feed into policy decisions made in Wales. Even when they are available in BSL, for example this consultation, there have still been gaps in guidance on how to respond in BSL etc.
• Outside of Government and Welsh Parliament, BSL users face barriers for sharing views on the way public bodies are run. We know that BSL users face significant barriers to the health service for example, but when individuals then attempt to take complaints or feedback further, they face additional barriers. A new report by the Public Services Ombudsman, ‘Equality Matters’ highlights the barriers to access to the health service, and highlights the case of a deaf carer who faced communication barriers and difficulties.[7]
• BSL is not routinely used in official Government communications, meaning BSL users have unequal access to this information. Despite Welsh Government leading on this during the pandemic and ensuring all comms were simultaneously available in BSL, since March 2024, this has no longer been the case; highlighting how without statutory protection, BSL users’ rights to access their language can be rolled back.
• There is already a lack of infrastructure in Wales to support BSL users compared to other nations. For example, a lower number of interpreters – while this figure varies there are estimated to be around 50 interpreters serving the whole of Wales – and a lack of deaf schools for deaf children growing up in Wales.
RNID believe that this should be a core objective of the Bill, in the spirit of nothing about us, without us. BSL users must be central to the design and delivery of the public services that they use, particularly those targeted towards, or most used by, deaf people. Welsh Government has previously committed to co-production, with examples of this in its Disability Rights Taskforce – this is a further opportunity to embed co-production in government decision-making.
As highlighted above, we think this Bill is a good opportunity to explore the possibility for a Welsh national Video Relay Service (VRS), similar to Contact Scotland, to improve BSL access to public services.
While a VRS is not an appropriate solution for all BSL communications – and certainly not an alternative to building capacity for access to face-to-face translators and interpreters, which is essential – a national 24/7 VRS service would allow deaf BSL users the same equity of immediate or urgent access to public services.
Beyond that, rather than highlighting specific communication methods, we would urge Welsh Government and the Senedd to use this opportunity to work with deaf organisations to ensure their communications with BSL users are effective,
Too often, public bodies think that good liaison with the deaf community is merely sharing information via charities and deaf organisations such as ourselves, BDA, NDCS etc and relying on our distribution to deaf communities. While this can be helpful, institutions need to consider that good engagement with the deaf community in certain circumstances might need to be fundamentally different. For example, in 2021, Ofcom consulted on its proposal to introduce a VRS to allow deaf BSL users to make video calls to 999. Alongside the routine consultation, Ofcom were also wiling to consider evidence generated via a Facebook group community where deaf people engaged and shared their views.
In implementing the Bill, we want to see Welsh Government work with organisations to test new approaches to engage with deaf communities.
In addition to barriers highlighted above, RNID is focused on three strategic areas where our communities face the most significant inequality; health, employment and wider inclusion. Therefore, we would like to see the Bill address these key areas, in particular health given that this is fully devolved to Welsh Government.
As highlighted earlier in the submission, despite the All Wales Standards for Accessible Communication and Information being introduced in 2013, there has been a worrying lack of progress to ensure these are effectively implemented and applied consistently across Wales. That means that deaf BSL users still face regular barriers to accessing health and care; from booking a GP appointment, where some surgeries still demand this be done via phone call, to accessing the correct communication support at appointments in both primary and secondary care, to accessing medical and health information in a format that’s accessible to them.
We are currently conducting research about our communities’ access to health in Wales, and while the findings are not yet published, we can share some of the qualitative data we received from BSL user respondents about their experience of accessing NHS Wales services:
- "I went to A & E for a chest pain issue a few years ago. The staff there didn’t know how to book an interpreter and were rude to me when I tried to ask them for an interpreter. I made a formal complaint with the health board they never followed it up"
- "I witnessed in an emergency department, a profoundly Deaf patient that had stomach issues and he had requested an interpreter, but none came so if I wasn’t there to help, he would have had no idea how many times to take his medication daily and I think this could have been very dangerous"
Several of the comments referenced issues with the Wales Interpretation and Translation Service (WITS) who book interpreters and comms support at the request of health boards; but confirmation of this booking is not routinely shared with patients, so BSL users often arrive at medical appointments not knowing if an interpreter will be present, or who it will be. In parts of Wales, this service used to be managed by deaf charities and organisations who oversaw liaison between the interpreter and the deaf patient in need of support.
- "There is little or no confirmation from NHS that interpreter has been booked. NHS uses the Wales Interpreter and Translation Service (WITS) run by Cardiff Council. WITS refuses to inform patients about booking confirmation unless Deaf person asks directly. WITS system is a nightmare for patients."
Another example highlights the value of Video Relay Services (VRS) in medical contexts. While we know many BSL users would prefer a face-to-face interpreter, VRS can be a helpful interim or alternate solution if there is poor availability of interpreters to attend face to face.
- "Video relay services more accessible than sourcing an interpreter for face to face. I wish Cardiff and vale health board would have contract with a VRS service for their GP surgeries meaning that patients don’t have to wait a long time for an interpreter to be available. As there’s an interpreter shortage in Wales which means it affects patients who want an appointment very soon. Puts them at an unfair disadvantage compared to hearing people. GPs have computers and would be beneficial for them and us to have a VRS platform. This is a good option for those who need an interpreter in an instant"
Scottish Government commission a national Video Relay Service, Contact Scotland, which is available 24/7 to contact essential services including the NHS and Police. This is available via app and includes the functionality to leave video messages if calls are unanswered. We would like to see a call for a similar service in Wales included in the proposals for a BSL Wales Bill, to improve access to the NHS for BSL users.
Without access to adequate communications support, we know that people often resort to informal support of hearing friends or family members to translate. This is a patient safety issue; as these individuals may not be equipped with the right language to adequately translate medical information, and relying on friends or family members infringes on the individuals’ right to privacy in accessing information about their own health and care. There is also a danger that family and friends may choose which information to relay, and therefore the deaf patient is not receiving all information appropriately or accurately. Worryingly, we have already seen multiple references to this in our ongoing research:
- "I’m very fortunate that my GP medical centre communicate with me by text message. They are unbelievably helpful and supportive. I’m sure some GP services are not so helpful but in my case I have no complaints at all. For
hospital appointments I take a hearing friend or family member who use BSL to help me"
- "I use a family member to interpret"
For employment and inclusion, while elements of these policy areas are devolved, we know that BSL users in Wales still experience barriers and more could be done by the Welsh Government to address them. For example, ensuring the accessibility of employment support schemes in Wales to BSL users and ensure there is equal access to this kind of support.
For inclusion, culturally there is more that can be done in Wales to improve equality for BSL users, both through language and access to public services and wider public life. With Wales soon likely to be the only UK nation without dedicated legislation to protect and promote British Sign Language, BSL users are likely to feel further disenfranchised.
RNID’s recent report ‘It Does Matter’ published in December highlighted the public attitudes and behaviours towards BSL users across the UK. The research found that people who identify as deaf and use BSL as their main or preferred language find interactions with the public more negative than people with hearing loss. Alarmingly, 71% of BSL users surveyed believe that most people hold negative attitudes towards
deaf people and people with hearing loss, and 66% disagreed with the statement that ‘deaf people and people with hearing loss are treated fairly’. While the report found that much of the general public do not have ingrained negative attitudes towards BSL users, there was a clear lack of confidence in communicating with BSL users for fear of getting it wrong, appearing rude or causing offence. Both the general public and BSL users surveyed wanted the public to know more about BSL and how to communicate with BSL users.
The Bill proposes to establish a BSL Commissioner who would promote and facilitate the use of BSL, and would have the same powers as other minority language Commissioners such as in the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011.
We will be addressing both question 10 and 11 in one response, so please see below.
RNID support the proposed remit for a BSL Commissioner set out in question 11, however we do not necessarily believe that appointing a BSL Commissioner and office is the best way, or best use of resources, to carry out this remit and achieve the aims set out in the Bill.
While we understand the proposal for a commissioner, we know that the resource needed to make this role comparable to those of other commissioners, including the Welsh Language Commissioner, could be a disproportionate use of funds compared to its direct impact for deaf BSL users in Wales. A commissioner is also a role outside of Government, and while this has many benefits in terms of scrutiny, we believe that to achieve the change we want to see, the work to implement and carry out the aims of a BSL Wales Bill need to be firmly embedded within Government and Welsh public bodies.
We agree with the proposals for a BSL Advisory Panel and think consideration should be given for how membership of this Panel is resourced to ensure members have the capacity to carry out the required duties, ideally on a statutory footing, under this Bill.
This should feed directly into Welsh Government and the appropriate Cabinet Secretaries, similarly to the Disability Equality Forum, the Disability Rights Taskforce and the More than Just Words Advisory Board for the Welsh language.
RNID also believe that given much of the work to adhere to and implement the BSL Wales Bill will sit with public bodies and services, including health boards, education providers and local authorities, resource should be focused on working directly with these bodies to ensure they are equipped with the appropriate skills, knowledge and understanding to carry out their duties. Therefore, rather than a commissioner, we would prefer to see resource allocated to appointing BSL leads to various public bodies who can ensure the work to promote and facilitate BSL is embedded in organisations’ ways of working. These roles could also then serve as conduits between public bodies and the BSL Advisory Panel.
Regarding other areas of the remit of a panel:
• We agree that BSL standards should be formulated to clarify what meaningful promotion and facilitation looks like.
• We agree with the five-year reporting cycle to highlight the position of BSL in that time, in addition to an annual Welsh Government report on progress and implementation. We agree that this reporting should be tied to the Wellbeing of Future Generations reporting cycle, to avoid duplication of work for public bodies. However, it is crucial that these reports also be digestible and accessible to BSL users.
• We agree that guidance and a process should be provided for public bodies to promote and facilitate BSL in their respective domains. We think this should also extend to guidance on working with interpreters, translators etc to ensure consistency and a level of quality across Wales.
• We also agree that a procedure for the investigation of complaints, and the complaints process should be established. This should be done in collaboration with existing complaints bodies including the public service ombudsman, so existing processes are made fully accessible for BSL users.
In addition to the remit set out above, RNID would propose some further areas of focus, which we have already touched on in more detail earlier in the submission. These include:
- Improved data collection on BSL users in Wales
- Capacity mapping for BSL infrastructure and;
- Workforce planning for Teachers of the Deaf, BSL interpreters and translators, etc
- Improving provision of BSL in Welsh Government and other public bodies’ communication
- Enabling full access to healthcare within Wales for BSL users
- Improving access to employment support for BSL users
- Ensuring equal access to public services, including local authorities, transport, etc.
RNID would also like to see an initial, short-term, measurable Action Plan published alongside the approval of this Bill to address the immediate work needed to build the capacity and resource to meet the requirements of the Bill. This Action Plan would address the points raised earlier in our submission, in relation to workforce mapping, capacity planning and building. This Action Plan should not be another long-term strategy but should be a concise and accessible list of immediate to short-term actions that are measurable, and have clear timelines set against them, to achieve the appropriate infrastructure and capacity needed to deliver and implement the Bill. There may be potential for the work which will be conducted by the Welsh Government’s BSL Stakeholder Group to develop a short term BSL route-map to inform or form part of this Action Plan.
Most importantly, it is crucial that any BSL Commissioner or Welsh Government BSL Bill lead, and Advisory Panel members, work across government and across all ministerial portfolios, and that co-production is embedded via the panel and delivered in partnership with the BSL user community.
RNID agree that a majority of a BSL Advisory Panel should be made up of fluent BSL signers to ensure lived experience is central to, and embedded within, the decision- making and work of the panel. However, we do think it’s important that the advisory panel reflect a broad spectrum of experiences to ensure maximum impact. We would advocate a similar model to the makeup of the Scotland and England panels/councils, which are made up of fluent BSL signers, BSL learners including parents of deaf children, BSL interpreters and translators, deaf people for whom BSL is their second language, Children of Deaf Adults (CODAs) and hearing individuals representing deaf and hearing loss charities, amongst others. We think this breadth of experience is needed to form a BSL Advisory Board that will achieve effective collaboration and balance a range of skills, expertise and lived experience.
To ensure that the right balance of both professional and lived experience is struck, it could be feasible to have two tiers of advisory board membership – the primary tier being for those with lived experience, and the secondary tier being for those who do not have lived experience as BSL users, but have relevant policy expertise and experience which could contribute towards achieving the group’s aims. Ultimately, while this work should be entirely deaf and BSL user-led, we will not achieve the goals and aims of the Bill without working collaboratively across Welsh society.
RNID agree with this proposal but believe that these annual reports should be concise and accessible. We would also stress that, rather than the reporting process be a once- a-year exercise to meet this reporting requirement, the process of publishing a report should instead reflect the summary of a of a ‘living’ document, that is used year-round to document and monitor the promotion and facilitation of BSL, including any barriers that have been overcome or progress made in that time. These annual reports will be important for transparency, monitoring, scrutiny and collating learnings that can be shared with other public bodies to improve implementation.
Any additional issues have been addressed and raised elsewhere in our consultation response.
[1] Based on the 2021 ONS CensusData for Englandand Wales. Peoplewere asked ‘Whatis your main language’ and could select ‘English’ or select ‘Other,including British Sign Language’ and thenenter their main language. Read the 2021 ONS Census Data for England and Wales report.
[3] (Foltz & Shank,2020; Terry et al., 2021)
[4] (Bowen & Holtom, 2020)
[5] RNID, It Does Matter: PublicAttitudes towards peoplewho use British Sign Language, 2024 - https://rnid.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/IDM-BSL-report.pdf
[6] Ibid.
[7] Ombudsman Wales, Equality Matters,2025 - https://www.ombudsman.wales/wp- content/uploads/2025/01/Equality-Matters-January-2025.pdf